Need some help with a Bagridae ID

[koltsixx]

I saw a Bagridae on Jeff Rapps list that caught my eye but I think his ID maybe wrong. The cat in question is listed as Bagrus meridionalis but I think it's something else and was looking for some opinions because I'd really like to pick it up. Unfortunately I know the ID won't be real reliable since it's based on a pic and there are very little distinguishing characteristics to distinguish the species. Still I'd like to hear what you guys think it might be. I personally think it maybe Hemibagrus peguensis or Bagrus menoda. thebiggerthebetter

Hemibagrus peguensis

Hemibagrus menoda on Planetcatfish
http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/species.php?species_id=2028

Jeffs pic

Bagrus meridionalis as seen on Planetcatfish
http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/image.php?species=bagrus_meridionalis&image_id=15001

 

[Renegade Aquatics]

The main thing that would give away the ID is where the fish was collected.
As Bagrus meridionalis is from Africa and Hemibagrus menoda is from India.
However think its safe to say that he does indeed have a B. meridionalis especially when you see how long the adipose is in comparison to the Hemibagrus species provided
sorry the last image is a little small, but hope this helps.
although in case I'm wrong we should wait for TBTB and see what he has to say

 

[moe214]

I was just going to point that out, and whisker lengthy is different. That's a way to ID bagarius species. Eye placement, shape and size as well. However the shape and size of the adipose still differs a little, or maybe the dorsal being up is messing with my eyes. Might be a different species. But definitely not a peguensis.

 

[koltsixx]

The main thing that would give away the ID is where the fish was collected.
As Bagrus meridionalis is from Africa and Hemibagrus menoda is from India.
However think its safe to say that he does indeed have a B. meridionalis especially when you see how long the adipose is in comparison to the Hemibagrus species provided
sorry the last image is a little small, but hope this helps.
although in case I'm wrong we should wait for TBTB and see what he has to say

Thanks bro, don't know how I missed the difference in the adipose fin. Jeff hasn't listed where he sourced it. Just that it's a long term captive. At only 8 inches I want to ask how long term and where it was collected from.

I was just going to point that out, and whisker lengthy is different. That's a way to ID bagarius species. Eye placement, shape and size as well. However the shape and size of the adipose still differs a little, or maybe the dorsal being up is messing with my eyes. Might be a different species. But definitely not a peguensis.

Thanks moe, I never knew whisker length was one of the methods one can use to ID Bagridae. I learned something new, appreciate that.

I agree with you and Renegade my ID is definitely wrong but I don't know why I just still not sure it's meridionalis.

 

[moe214]

Thanks bro, don't know how I missed the difference in the adipose fin. Jeff hasn't listed where he sourced it. Just that it's a long term captive. At only 8 inches I want to ask how long term and where it was collected from.


Thanks moe, I never knew whisker length was one of the methods one can use to ID Bagridae. I learned something new, appreciate that.

I agree with you and Renegade my ID is definitely wrong but I don't know why I just still not sure it's meridionalis.

Look at hemibagrus wyckii and wyckioides, almost impossible to ID when young, but look at pictures and look at the whisker length, wyckioides whiskers are much longer (wyckii's whiskers reach to the beginning of the dorsal fin I believe and wyckioides reach down 3/4 of the the body to the adipose I believe, it's been awhile lol), it's how I distinguish between the two when young so easily. When older it's easy cause they have different body builds, and the colors vary obviously. I had their taxonomic descriptions and a few other species of the family downloaded before, I can't remember which species but I know one had an oval eye shape and the other was a circle, and ones eyes were farther back from the jaw. It's all small details but it's characteristics specific to those species.

 

[Renegade Aquatics]

Thanks bro, don't know how I missed the difference in the adipose fin. Jeff hasn't listed where he sourced it. Just that it's a long term captive. At only 8 inches I want to ask how long term and where it was collected from.

Its cool we all make mistakes, I'm just happy to help out
and as for your uncertainty about it being Meridionalis, it could be another species as there are probably other bagrids that look similar. I would look now, but its getting late. I will look tomorrow though

 

[koltsixx]

Look at hemibagrus wyckii and wyckioides, almost impossible to ID when young, but look at pictures and look at the whisker length, wyckioides whiskers are much longer (wyckii's whiskers reach to the beginning of the dorsal fin I believe and wyckioides reach down 3/4 of the the body to the adipose I believe, it's been awhile lol), it's how I distinguish between the two when young so easily. When older it's easy cause they have different body builds, and the colors vary obviously. I had their taxonomic descriptions and a few other species of the family downloaded before, I can't remember which species but I know one had an oval eye shape and the other was a circle, and ones eyes were farther back from the jaw. It's all small details but it's characteristics specific to those species.

Thanks moe, I learned something yet again. You had some of the Bagridae species taxonomic description downloaded here or in your PC?

Its cool we all make mistakes, I'm just happy to help out
and as for your uncertainty about it being Meridionalis, it could be another species as there are probably other bagrids that look similar. I would look now, but its getting late. I will look tomorrow though

Thanks again, it is appreciated. My uncertainty is just one of those gut feelings. Can't place my reason as to why. Whether I'm right or wrong I hope this might be something TBTB is interested in. Knowing his penchant for monster cats I thought that it maybe something he'd like to pick up for himself. It's why besides my query that I tagged him.

Both your answers just goes to show the wealth of info. some of the members have on here. I just there was a better way of showcasing that knowledge on here.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

...although in case I'm wrong we should wait for TBTB and see what he has to say

I'm no expert guys I'm a hoarder and my expertise is summed up as follows "It's a large-growing animal, part cat, part fish. Me wants."

But based on the PCF pics alone which do show small guys too, I see no reason to doubt Jeff's ID. To my crude eye the brood of small guys photographed in the wild looks close to Jeff's pic. http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/image.php?species=bagrus_meridionalis&image_id=15002

If it was another Bagrus, chances are it'd be docmak (sometimes available from Rehoboth) but it does not look like it: http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/genus.php?genus_id=132#373

But Kolt's right, me wants. I'll post on PCF to make sure of the ID:

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

... I'll post on PCF to make sure of the ID:

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=43978#p299850

 

[moe214]

Thanks moe, I learned something yet again. You had some of the Bagridae species taxonomic description downloaded here or in your PC?

No problem. I had it on an old phone I had but I ended up losing the phone I can find it and link it to you, I always go back to taxonomic descriptions when I'm unsure of an ID of a fish I'm interested in lol, and wyckii happens to be one of my favorite cats. So I read the taxonomy, and I can remember some stuff here and there lol.

All 87 pages of the taxonomic description for the bagrids: http://lkcnhm.nus.edu.sg/rbz/biblio/61/61rbz205-291.pdf