The Sega Dreamcast appreciation thread

[Oh Danny Boy]

Don’t ask me how much this little duo cost. Had to break my £50 limit rule but can’t have a Dreamcast without my two favourite games on the system. Had some spare cash for my bday so thought what the hell. No 360 or PS4 here so the DC is still the only place to experience Rez. Cosmic Smash has to be one of SEGA’s most forgotten gems, would love a remix one day but for now it’s keeping the Dreamcast much loved. 

 

[Wonderm]

Cosmic Smash what a beauty

[spanky debrest]

Sega insisting on funding / releasing super classy unique games like Cosmic Smash as their house was burning down was something we'll never see again.

 

I remember proudly showing off 'L.O.L' ('Lack of Love') and 'Napple Tale' to my brother pre-pandemic as gorgeous weird one-offs and his response was basically 'yeah that's why they went out of business'. I don't agree with that but do love how despite their dire financial situation they were still greenlighting genuinely compelling games with extraordinary aesthetics.

 

I mean, I've yet to play Dee Dee Planet outside of a quick test but the visual style and incredible sound design is fully formed, turn-of-the-century Sega magic.

 

Once I'm off this N64 kick there's a fat stack of DC goodness I plan on properly catching up on.

[Sketch]

So I'm about to pull the trigger on a modded Dreamcast console.

 

No HDMI, since I figure if I want to play on my HDTV then I'll just emulate. So this is for a CRT.

 

Can't decide between GDEmu and MODE. Is there any major reasons to go for a MODE, at over 180 euro plus import tax, rather than a cheap and cheerful GDEmu clone? Keeping in mind MODE also seems to be out of stock currently?

 

Initially I wanted an official GDEmu, but that guy, and his dumb ordering system, it's not worth it just for Skies of Arcadia and Code Veronica. I can play those on GC and PS2.

 

In addition to Dreamcast games, I very much intend to add the entire catalogue of converted Atomiswave games.

 

It seems MODE allows overclocking to reduce slowdown, but how bad can it really be? Bad enough to warrant paying 3x as much?

 

Spoiler

Animal Basket

Block Pong Pong

Demolish Fist

Dirty Pigskin Football

Dolphin Blue

Extreme Hunting

Faster Than Speed

Fist of the North Star

Force Five (previously unreleased)

Guilty Gear Isuka

Guilty Gear X

Kenju (previously unreleased)

King Of Fighters XI

Knights of Valour: The Seven Spirits

Maximum Speed

Metal Slug 6

NeoGeo Battle Coliseum

Neowave: The King of Fighters

Ranger Mission

Rumble Fish

Rumble Fish 2

Samurai Shodown VI (Samurai Spirits Tenkaichi Kenkakuden)

Sega Clay Challenge

Sports Shooting USA

Wai Wai Drive

 

So persuade me either for or against getting a modded DC with cloned GDEmu.

 

EDIT: What are people's experience with multi-disc games like D2?

[Major Britten]

On 31/07/2021 at 19:00, Sketch said:

So I'm about to pull the trigger on a modded Dreamcast console.

 

No HDMI, since I figure if I want to play on my HDTV then I'll just emulate. So this is for a CRT.

 

Can't decide between GDEmu and MODE. Is there any major reasons to go for a MODE, at over 180 euro plus import tax, rather than a cheap and cheerful GDEmu clone? Keeping in mind MODE also seems to be out of stock currently?

 

Initially I wanted an official GDEmu, but that guy, and his dumb ordering system, it's not worth it just for Skies of Arcadia and Code Veronica. I can play those on GC and PS2.

 

In addition to Dreamcast games, I very much intend to add the entire catalogue of converted Atomiswave games.

 

It seems MODE allows overclocking to reduce slowdown, but how bad can it really be? Bad enough to warrant paying 3x as much?

 

  Hide contents

Animal Basket

Block Pong Pong

Demolish Fist

Dirty Pigskin Football

Dolphin Blue

Extreme Hunting

Faster Than Speed

Fist of the North Star

Force Five (previously unreleased)

Guilty Gear Isuka

Guilty Gear X

Kenju (previously unreleased)

King Of Fighters XI

Knights of Valour: The Seven Spirits

Maximum Speed

Metal Slug 6

NeoGeo Battle Coliseum

Neowave: The King of Fighters

Ranger Mission

Rumble Fish

Rumble Fish 2

Samurai Shodown VI (Samurai Spirits Tenkaichi Kenkakuden)

Sega Clay Challenge

Sports Shooting USA

Wai Wai Drive

 

So persuade me either for or against getting a modded DC with cloned GDEmu.

 

EDIT: What are people's experience with multi-disc games like D2?

Go for a MODE, I bought 2 clone GDemus and neither of them have worked correctly. Also getting the games on to the thing and working is a royal pain in the arse, especially if you’re a mac user. I’ve just loaded my SSD and stuck it in my MODE and it all works perfectly with no issues at all. In fact I’m considering getting a second one so I have one each for the Saturn and DC

[Sketch]

1 hour ago, Major Britten said:

I bought 2 clone GDemus and neither of them have worked correctly

 

getting the games on to the thing and working is a royal pain in the arse

 

Oh my! Could you elaborate on these two points? I'm eyeing up a nice cloned GDEmu system now, but what sort of problems can they have, functionally?

 

Also, I thought adding games was simply dropping ISOs on to the SD card? Or it like the RHEA board for Saturn, where you need to build a primary boot ISO, containing links to all the folders with games you want? (Because yes, that was a PITA, even on Windows).

 

EDIT: I've just discovered how the sausages are made. Absolutely fuck that. I had that with RHEA on the Saturn - it's by the same guy, so he obviously enjoys having major pains in his ass. I just don't update RHEA any more, because every single time you want to add or remove something, you need to rebuild the entire file structure, and you need to rename everything. It's supposed to detect the name of games, but 75% of the Saturn ISOs I tried adding it did not detect the name, so I had to put it in manually. That's like 150 games. Manually. By hand. MANUALLY.

 

Nope. I'd rather go without completely than use a GDEmu. Thank you @Major Britten for opening my eyes to this.

 

I want drag and drop or I want nothing.

 

Any recs on where to get a MODE? Or a USB mod pre-made?

 

@strider - did you know about this? Keep it in mind when making your ODE purchase.

 

 

 

 

[ianinthefuture]

Everyone forgets USB-GDROM, the best ODE for Dreamcast.

 

I've used three - one in the personal machine, two in machines I did up and sold on. It's the best ODE (unless you care about pretty menus, in which case it's... not).

[Sketch]

9 minutes ago, ianinthefuture said:

Everyone forgets USB-GDROM, the best ODE for Dreamcast.

 

I've used three - one in the personal machine, two in machines I did up and sold on. It's the best ODE (unless you care about pretty menus, in which case it's... not).

 

I honestly could not care any less about menu aesthetics than I do already - so this is fine!

 

When are you next selling one on Ian?

[ianinthefuture]

Doubt I will be at all, to be honest. Bought a few broken DCs as a fixer-upper lockdown hobby, they're all gone to friends (and non-friends) now.

[Kevvy Metal]

I bought 2 MODE's. 

One for my Saturn and one for my Dreamcast. 

I love them, they work fantastically, but I guess I don't like money and like to get rid of cash asap. 

[Major Britten]

3 hours ago, Sketch said:

 

Any recs on where to get a MODE? Or a USB mod pre-made?

 

 

 

 

 

MODE you can get from terraonion’s website although you’ll probably get stung with import tax, still worth it though. Installation is dead simple, just remove a few screws, remove the cd drive and slot in the mode and thats it, takes about two minutes to do. File system is pretty much drag and drop and you have the option of using an SSD, Micro SD card or HDD to store your games.

[Major Britten]

1 hour ago, Kevvy Metal said:

I bought 2 MODE's. 

One for my Saturn and one for my Dreamcast. 

I love them, they work fantastically, but I guess I don't like money and like to get rid of cash asap. 

Well buying two modes is still cheaper than buying a single copy of Panzer Dragoon Saga, so I’d say its a good deal

[Major Britten]

Anyone using an ODE who wants to play HotD2 or Confidential Mission with a light gun, download the Japanese or Pal versions of the games as the US ones will not work with the sega light gun, just found that one out today when I booted those games up.

[donkeyk]

On 31/07/2021 at 11:00, Sketch said:

No HDMI, since I figure if I want to play on my HDTV then I'll just emulate. So this is for a CRT.

 

 

 

Just bear in mind that unless you want to play on a CRT specifically to play light gun games, it isn't really the best way to play Dreamcast - it outputs 480i, not 240p (except for a few Capcom beat em ups.) If you want a prog scan image then you'll need a downscaler.

 

Alternatively, find an old CRT monitor with VGA input then get a VGA adapter - the vast majority of games can be forced to output VGA.

 

Of course, you might not care about the lack of 240p, in which case carry on

[Kevvy Metal]

13 minutes ago, donkeyk said:

 

Just bear in mind that unless you want to play on a CRT specifically to play light gun games, it isn't really the best way to play Dreamcast - it outputs 480i, not 240p (except for a few Capcom beat em ups.) If you want a prog scan image then you'll need a downscaler.

 

Alternatively, find an old CRT monitor with VGA input then get a VGA adapter - the vast majority of games can be forced to output VGA.

 

Of course, you might not care about the lack of 240p, in which case carry on

Nowt wrong with 480i on a CRT! 

[donkeyk]

Just now, Kevvy Metal said:

Nowt wrong with 480i on a CRT! 

 

I wouldn't disagree with that. But if you're spending a chunk of change on modding a console, it might be because you want the best experience possible - which arguably you won't get with a Dreamcast-TV CRT combo. It was meant more with a 'have you considered....' sentiment rather than as a warning - especially if Sketch doesn't yet have a CRT. Not sure purchasing a TV CRT (given how much they now cost) specifically for Dreamcast would be the best option, that's all

 

[Kevvy Metal]

21 minutes ago, donkeyk said:

 

I wouldn't disagree with that. But if you're spending a chunk of change on modding a console, it might be because you want the best experience possible - which arguably you won't get with a Dreamcast-TV CRT combo. It was meant more with a 'have you considered....' sentiment rather than as a warning - especially if Sketch doesn't yet have a CRT. Not sure purchasing a TV CRT (given how much they now cost) specifically for Dreamcast would be the best option, that's all

 

 

All of my time with the Dreamcast back 20 years ago was spent playing it on a consumer CRT, 60 Hz with an RGB Scart cable. 

I'm not totally all about recreating nostalgia things, but there's many ways to skin a cat. That's my preferred way to play DC games now. 

 

Even though a have an RGB modded AV Famicom, I kinda prefer the look of that machine over composite but into a CRT. It's "worse" but also totally great.   

[Sketch]

17 hours ago, donkeyk said:

if Sketch doesn't yet have a CRT

 

Thanks for the suggestions. I actually have 3x CRT TVs, including a Sony Trinitron and a Panasonic widescreen Quintrix. I had 4 at one time, but had to downscale (it was one of those portable Sonys, didn't even realise they go for £300 so I just dumped it )

 

Thanks to @ianinthefuture going to the trouble of comparing HDMI modded DC and emulated, I've decided to get an old-fashioned DC for use on the Trinitron or Quintrix, since the HDMI mod seems fairly similar to emulation on my 1080p TV.

 

DC through RGB SCART is very nice, from my recollections of living in 1999.

 

Later today I'm going to check out the local retro store, since I think I'm going to try that USB mod. Cheap, cheerful, easy.

 

17 hours ago, Kevvy Metal said:

Even though a have an RGB modded AV Famicom, I kinda prefer the look of the NES over composite into a CRT. It's "worse" but also totally great.   

 

Testify!

 

You're one of the few people I've seen online who notice this. Agree completely. You can tell a lot of NES games were designed specifically around the inherent artefacting of composite into CRT. In some instances it produces additional false colours, giving the impression of a larger palette, and some games feel somewhat enhanced.

 

The easiest example I tell people is the original Zelda. Emulated or through RGB, his item box borders (at the top) are straight lines. But through composite into CRT they take on a twirly appearance, like Roman columns. I'm not sure if Nintendo wanted this specifically, but I prefer it, and a lot of games look better (the fog in Xanadu, the grittiness of Batman, etc.)

 

Basically every game I've played is improved through composite. Sort of like how CGA is better through composite. It doesn't produce 4 colours, it can produce 16 colours through clever implementation. Skip to 7 minutes to see how.

 

Which is why I deliberately avoided getting an RGB modded system to get an original NTSC-U toaster for the best look.

 

EDIT:

The original Sonic on Mega Drive, the team has stated they designed it to make use of how RF cables blur pixels, so you get transparency on the waterfalls. I actually set it up with an RF cable and they're right! There's a lot of interlacing in Mega Drive games, and this gets blurred through RF (another good example: the shadow in Comix Zone, it looks like a proper transparency through RF).

[Kevvy Metal]

27 minutes ago, Sketch said:

 

Thanks for the suggestions. I actually have 3x CRT TVs, including a Sony Trinitron and a Panasonic widescreen Quintrix. I had 4 at one time, but had to downscale (it was one of those portable Sonys, didn't even realise they go for £300 so I just dumped it )

 

Thanks to @ianinthefuture going to the trouble of comparing HDMI modded DC and emulated, I've decided to get an old-fashioned DC for use on the Trinitron or Quintrix, since the HDMI mod seems fairly similar to emulation on my 1080p TV.

 

DC through RGB SCART is very nice, from my recollections of living in 1999.

 

Later today I'm going to check out the local retro store, since I think I'm going to try that USB mod. Cheap, cheerful, easy.

 

 

Testify!

 

You're one of the few people I've seen online who notice this. Agree completely. You can tell a lot of NES games were designed specifically around the inherent artefacting of composite into CRT. In some instances it produces additional false colours, giving the impression of a larger palette, and some games feel somewhat enhanced.

 

The easiest example I tell people is the original Zelda. Emulated or through RGB, his item box borders (at the top) are straight lines. But through composite into CRT they take on a twirly appearance, like Roman columns. I'm not sure if Nintendo wanted this specifically, but I prefer it, and a lot of games look better (the fog in Xanadu, the grittiness of Batman, etc.)

 

Basically every game I've played is improved through composite. Sort of like how CGA is better through composite. It doesn't produce 4 colours, it can produce 16 colours through clever implementation. Skip to 7 minutes to see how.

 

Which is why I deliberately avoided getting an RGB modded system to get an original NTSC-U toaster for the best look.

 

EDIT:

The original Sonic on Mega Drive, the team has stated they designed it to make use of how RF cables blur pixels, so you get transparency on the waterfalls. I actually set it up with an RF cable and they're right! There's a lot of interlacing in Mega Drive games, and this gets blurred through RF (another good example: the shadow in Comix Zone, it looks like a proper transparency through RF).

 

Yup aye! 

I've recently been playing some of the older console I have using composite cables into my PVM, and they look amazing. NES, SNES, MD, PC-E. 

As you said, a lot of those games were designed with that signal in mind. I think it looks really bad using a scaler, but a CRT hides a lot of the noise and what not. 

As you go up the console generation, I like to switch to RGB for the likes of the Saturn, PlayStation or Dreamcast as these where actually readily available with scart cables

 

A potential problem with composite, it'll work on my PVM but on a consumer CRT you'll likely get a black and white picture if you're using NTSC consoles (all of mine are). 

That was the reason why I "had" to go RGB for every before as I was running my consoles in a Framemeister and consumer set simultaneously via a gscart. 

[Colonel Panic]

Slightly disturbed by this "composite is good" talk tbh. On a consumer TV, composite really depends on the quality of the comb filter, which isn't that great even on good Trinitrons.

 

Composite into a PVM, sure, it's gonna look pretty good. 

[Kevvy Metal]

58 minutes ago, Colonel Panic said:

Slightly disturbed by this "composite is good" talk tbh. On a consumer TV, composite really depends on the quality of the comb filter, which isn't that great even on good Trinitrons.

 

Composite into a PVM, sure, it's gonna look pretty good. 

 

Well it's literally all subjective. There's no right or wrong way to do anything. 

[Sketch]

1 hour ago, Kevvy Metal said:

A potential problem with composite, it'll work on my PVM but on a consumer CRT you'll likely get a black and white picture if you're using NTSC consoles

 

Yes, I had this when i first bought a Duo-R while in Japan and brought it home. My old TV (circa mid-90s) showed b/w, and the system did not natively output RGB (this was in 2001, so the internet had very little info - nothing in fact - but it had a 5-pin DIN plug, and there was seemingly no way to get RGB out of it). But when I upgraded to a newer CRT it worked fine - great in fact. The newer flatscreen CRTs after the millennium accept an NTSC signal through composite fine. My NTSC NES shows up in colour in on that Quintrix and Sony. How old are these consumer CRTs that still show b/w? Or was I just very lucky getting a decent top range model?

 

1 hour ago, Colonel Panic said:

Slightly disturbed by this "composite is good" talk tbh.

 

Welcome to the NEW FLESH COLONEL!

 

We have ways of making the disturbing seem quite pleasant.

 

(My Duo-R on the little Sony portable looked gorgeous - I couldn't believe how crisp it looked, even compared to my other consoles that output RGB on to it. I miss that little TV. )

[Kevvy Metal]

4 minutes ago, Sketch said:

 

Yes, I had this when i first bought a Duo-R while in Japan and brought it home. My old TV (circa mid-90s) showed b/w, and the system did not natively output RGB (this was in 2001, so the internet had very little info - nothing in fact - but it had a 5-pin DIN plug, and there was seemingly no way to get RGB out of it). But when I upgraded to a newer CRT it worked fine - great in fact. The newer flatscreen CRTs after the millennium accept an NTSC signal through composite fine. My NTSC NES shows up in colour in on that Quintrix and Sony. How old are these consumer CRTs that still show b/w? Or was I just very lucky getting a decent top range model?

 

 

Welcome to the NEW FLESH COLONEL!

 

We have ways of making the disturbing seem quite pleasant.

 

This consumer set was a 20" Toshiba that I bought new in 2002. A superb consumer CRT that I no longer have as the PVM kinda "replaced" it. I no longer have it and it would of been an excellent back up and I don't want to talk about it 

 

I imported a Japanese Gamecube to be surprised by the fact that it was completely in Black and White over Composite... but I could just buy the GC RGB cable and use that right? Nope, doesn't support it. Saurian cable came to the rescue! 

[Colonel Panic]

43 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

 

Well it's literally all subjective. There's no right or wrong way to do anything. 

 

Easy to be subjective putting composite into a PVM

 

But seriously... Of course it's subjective. I'm giving my thoughts on it like you did! 

 

(As an aside, the S-Video support out of an NTSC GC is excellent!)

[Camel]

I play Atari games over RF. Makes you think.

 

Spoiler

About how crap RF is.

 

[Ninja Doctor]

Composite I could kinda live with. Anything with only a RF output needs modding. 
 

looking at you master system 2. 

[Sketch]

On 02/08/2021 at 12:31, ianinthefuture said:

Everyone forgets USB-GDROM, the best ODE for Dreamcast.

 

I've just ordered one. Seems to be the easiest/cheapest method that's also easily self doable. Now to get a Dreamcast.

 

Hopefully it's as easy as you say. If not, there will be repercussions! (By which I mean a politely worded PM asking for advice.)

[ianinthefuture]

11 hours ago, Sketch said:

 

I've just ordered one. Seems to be the easiest/cheapest method that's also easily self doable. Now to get a Dreamcast.

 

Hopefully it's as easy as you say. If not, there will be repercussions! (By which I mean a politely worded PM asking for advice.)

 

I don't think it actually comes with instructions, but there are instructions online anyway. It's just unscrewing the GD-ROM drive and bolting the USB-GDROM onto the plate, then re-seating it. Very straightforward.

 

Also do make sure to email him when it arrives as he's implemented the need to enter a one-off code after a certain amount of time to acknowledge you've received it (a pop up message comes on screen, you enter the code he's told you, you never have to do it again). I think it's his way around people claiming lost packages/people nicking packages.

[Sketch]

3 hours ago, ianinthefuture said:

Also do make sure to email him when it arrives

 

Will do!

 

How important is modding it for heat?

 

I've seen the tutorial videos, and installing the USB device is easy.

 

Someone put tape in to redirect the airflow, but that seems a bit flimsy. Others recommend a 3D printed tray (but didn't say where from). For the power you can either put a 300R (ohm) resistor between the 12v and ground rails on the power supply (but without saying what the wattage needs to be!). Or removing the 12v regulator altogether. But then that apparently stops RGB over SCART working. Unless you then get an RGB cable that's  wired to use 5v for video blanking. Or apparently you can just replace the entire power block with something called DreamPSU.

 

What if though, right... I just ignore all of that and just pop the USB thing and use it as is? Will I burn my house down?

 

EDIT:

I kinda wish i had not gone down the rabbit hole now.

 

So I looked up replacement power supplies, and they apparently need... I don't know what they need. An ATX thing it's called? A power brick like my Xbox has? Whatever this is, I don't have it, even if I bought the replacement PSU board. I assumed I could just plug one of the usual 8-shaped plug cables in. But it's got an all new jack in the back. Which I'm not sure I want to do - what do I plug in it afterwards? Can I just buy an all in one kit package? Because everyone line seems to be selling these new PSU boardss separately but without the actual plug to jam in it.

 

So...

 

I need:

* a working Dreamcast

 

* a new PSU (Pico or DreamPSU - which one and who has stock?)

 

* a 3D printed tray for this new PSU (where from?)

 

* new power adapter to snuggle inside the PSU and feed it juice (which kind?)

 

* some ohm resistors

 

* a 3D printed tray for the USB device to correct airflow (where from?)

 

* tape?

 

* I need to remove the 12v rail

 

* a special RGB SCART cable that uses 5v for v-blanking (from RretroCables?)

 

* a new USB flash stick (2TB max - any brand?)

 

* extra strong diazepam to make all this seem easy and dream-like. Dreamcast like?

 

Am I forgetting anything?

 

 

 

 

[Ninja Doctor]

So I think the heat issue is over blown. I ran a gdemu for a while and although the shell got warm to the touch that was it. 
 

Where the problem comes around is two fold:

 

1. removing the gdrom drive leaves the 12v line without load so it creeps up to 14-15v and the 12v regulator gets a bit warm. 
 

2. without the gd rom drive physically in place the normal corridor where the fan pulls air across the psu then out the side is no longer there. This is what is remedied by either adding a strip of card to simulate the side of the gdrom, re-establishing the corridor or by fitting a printed cover to the ODE which has a similar physical profile to the gdrom. 
 

if you are going with the mnemo usb-gdrom thingy I’m not sure if the 12v is left floating. Either way I would only bother with the card diverter for now and then worry later if things get too hot for your liking. If that happens then stick a 300ohm 1/4W thin film resistor between the 12v and ground pins on the psu. That will simulate a load on the 12v line.