ID Apistogramma sp Wangenfleck

[fart]

Hi

Almost a year ago i bought some young apistogramma as
Apistogramma macmasteri, the got a bit bigger and i did not think they looked at all like macmasteri, so i asked the one i bougth them from and he said that they where Ap wangenfleck and that he made a mistake,
but he was not 100% sure.

So I was hoping some eg you could help me verify if this is apistogramma Wangenfleck or not.

They have been spawning the last couple of months.

Attached a photo of the dominant male, not the best shot of his
tail, so if that is a problem i got a better shot of the tail, but with a non agressive marking.



With regards
F

 

[Mike Wise]

Well, it certainly does not look like A. sp. Wangenflecken to me. On Wangenflecken, the vertical bars are bowed toward the head: < ( ( ( ( ( <. The bars on your fish are much straighter. The pattern on your fish's caudal fin is too regular for Wangenflecken. Additionally, Wangenflecken is a more elongated species than your fish. I can think of 2 possibilities of what your fish is - 1 positive, 1 negative. To be more certain, I will need additional photos, including photos of the female.

 

[fart]

More photos

I dont like the sound of this, is it a hybrid :frown:

Iv put up 6 more phthos of the apistogramma ???

2 is of the same male, and the other foure is of 2 diferent females.

http://www.idi.ntnu.no/~rolfd/apistogramma/


I might also take more photos if thise are not good enogh for id

I realy hope fore the positive one

With regards
F

 

[fart]

7 more pictures

Just put our 7 more pictures of the apistogramma ****

Same place as link in my last post, hoping for a "positive" id


With regards
F

 

[OHR]

The fish in question would be siblings of these:
http://http://forum.apistogramma.com/showthread.php?t=9087&highlight=wangenflecken&page=2

 

[Mike Wise]

I looked at all of your photos. It always helps to have multiple pictures of the same fish. Most of the fish look like typical A. sp. Wangenflecken. There are some that are anomalous, however. The female on IMG_4120 has wider flank spots than typically seen on Wangenfleck. It could be that she is slightly different, since she is a domestic bred fish. The other photos of females are very typical for Wangenflecken. Are the photos "apistomale" and "apisto wangenfleck4" pictures of the same fish? These are a bit atypical for Wangenflecken. Perhaps it is the angle of the shot, but "apisto wangenfleck" looks too deep bodied for Wangenflecken. The flank bars are very odd for Wangenflecken in both photos. Since they are domestic bred fish, then it's possible that this is just an anomalous Wangenflecken. I will say that the first time that I looked at the photo "apisto wangenfleck4", I thought that it was a cross, but then I saw nothing that indicated hybridization. In many ways it looks like one of the robust populations of A. taeniata, like A. cf. taeniata "Obidos" (A5).

From what I can see, all probably are A. sp. Wangenflecken. If I owned a group like this, I wouldn't feel good breeding a female like the one in IMG_4120 and the males like in apisto_wangenfleck4 because of their odd appearance. It would depend on hard it is to get typical specimens.

 

[fart]

Photos

Hi

And thank you very much for the help in id the Apistogramma sp ´wangenfleck´

The reason i wanted to be realy sure of the ID, is that i wanted to register some photos of the Apistogramma in a norwegian aquarium fish database.

Iv been looking on the internet and in books to try to find pictures of A. sp ´wangenfleck´ for a while and have not been lucky.

But my insecurity started when i started to find simular looking apsitogramma like this
http://apistogrammaidiots.com/Fishroom_2/Gallery_2_1/gallery_2_1.html#01-aff-taen-m-1

As you mention in your post (Apistogramma taeniata), also some other that looked simular.

I am realy fresh to the aquarium hobby, just over 1 year, and only 10 months with the apistogramma (this is clearly the favorite and been focusing on them the last 6 months)


So to the pictures.
Pictures of the females are of all the 3 i have.

Pictures of the male however is of the same dominant male.


The photos apistomale.jpg and apisto wangenfleck4.jpg
are croped from a larger picture and might have been
distorted in that event. The bars are curved on the fish like in image
apistomale2.jpg, so maybe the crop and the angel of the fish are the reason the bars look more straight then they are.

So if you want i may have or can take som photos of the second male in the group.


The last one in the group is a juvinile male just starting to show his markings.



I have been looking for a way to get to learn how to id at least what complex the apisto comes from, do you know of any source where i can find a way to learn to do that?


Once again I am realy thankfull for taking your time to help me ID this
Apistogramma.


With regards
F

 

[Mike Wise]

You now understand how difficult is can be to identify fish from only a few photos. Distortion (from the angle of the shot and post processing of the photos) can do strange things. Please don't use any of the problem photos of the male on the Norwegian site. They will only confuse others who try to ID their fish. Try some other photos of the fish with the body "broadside" to the front of the aquarium. It is very important the the vertical bars show a bow-like shape.

Methods to identify different species-complexes can be found in Koslowski (2002) and on the old Apistogramma Study Group website (over 10 years out-of-date). I have worked on an update, but it isn't complete yet. I would talk to Tom Christoffersen (Larvik; TomC here). He can help.

 

[fart]

Yes i see its not an easy job to id these wonderful fishes.


Could only find german versions og the Koslowski (2002) book, not my strongest language :redface:

For the Fish database ill only send of the females that you aporved of and the male, will try to get a photo of him where it is easy to see the bowed bars.

Thanks for the help

With regards
F